Une interview de mgr de Val dans le sens de la crédibilité des apparitions

Bonsoir à tous,

Un ami du forum me demande de vous signaler l'interview de Monseigneur de Val que vous trouverez en anglais ci-dessous et qui va dans le sens de la crédibilité des apparitions de Garabandal.
Leodia


"No. The previous bishops did not admit that the apparitions were supernatural but to condemn them, no, that word had never been used."
Bishop del Val Gallo

"For sure I consider The (Garabandal) Messages important! Because they are important! ...It is important for us Christians to LIVE what The Messages of The Blessed Mother are saying.."
--Bishop del Val Gallo in The Vigil Special Issue 1992
Read Bishop del Val Gallo entire interview below.
From left to right - Sari (Mari-Loli's sister), Garabandal visionary Mari-Loli, Garabandal Bishop del Val Gallo holding a copy of the Garabandal news paper "The Vigil", Maria Saraco editor and publisher of "The Vigil".



Q. Where were you born and raised?
A. Something happened in the family and due to those circumstances, I was born in Burgos, but when I was fifteen days old, I was taken to Santander, and I always lived there after that.

Q. What made you decide to be a priest?
A. When I was four years old, the pastor of my church asked me if I wanted to become a priest I said "yes" in a way that such a small child would answer. But then, when I was nine years old, an aunt, who was my father's sister and was a nun in the order of The Daughters of Charity died in the order of sanctity because there had been a big epidemic of a very contagious disease among the children and (in spite of it) she was taking care of the sick. She was told to be very careful because she could become contaminated and die, but she said, "My whole life has been consecrated to God by serving the poor and I'm not going to stop now when they need me the most and that is what I will continue to do." She eventually got sick from the epidemic that was going around and died. This was being discussed and talked about in my home when I was nine years old and it made such an impression on me. This heroic action that the sister of my father did as a Daughter of Charity made me think, "Could I myself do this if I were a priest?" That's when I made my decision that I wanted to be a priest. I was nine years old. Then when I was twelve years old, I entered the Pontifical University of Comillas until I became a priest in 1944.

Q. How old were you when you were ordained...by whom and where?
A. I was ordained by Archbishop Parrado of Granada when I was 28 years old. He died many years ago. I was ordained in the church of the Political University of Comillas.

Q. When did you first go to Garabandal and why?
A. I went eight days after the first apparition. I went there because Bishop Doroteo Femandez called me, he was actually the Apostolic Administrator. Since I was a priest that he trusted, he wanted me to go there as an observer and to report back to him my impressions of everything that I had seen. So I went there about eight days after the first apparition because the Bishop told me to go.

Q. Who was the bishop of the diocese at that time?
A. Bishop Doroteo Fernandez.

Q. How many times did you visit the village during the years of the reported apparitions?
A.I went only another two times after that by order of the same bishop.

Q. Did you witness any of the four girls in ecstasy? If so, please describe what you saw and heard. What were your impressions?
A. Yes. Yes, I saw them. Yes, I saw them in ecstasy. That is what they were calling a psychological trance. I believe it was a trance but not as deep as one's first impression because they were going in and out of ecstasy. I said that I believed that it was a trance and this is what astonished the people and made them believe it was supernatural. My impressions were that of a spectator. We'll see. We'll see what happens because with this type of thing we cannot be rushed.

Q. When were you assigned to the Santander diocese? Was this your first diocese as bishop?
A. I was given the diocese on December 4, 1971. and came here on January 16, 1972. This was the first and the last diocese that I have had as a resident bishop. I was here for twenty years. Before that I was in Jerez de la Frontera in the area of Cadiz which belonged to the diocese of Sevilla, I was put in charge of that region of Cadiz by the Cardinal of Sevilla carrying on there like any other bishop which today is its own diocese.

Q. Since the beginning of the reported apparitions, how may bishops preceded you?
A. Many. There were many if we consider that some were bishops and some were Apostolic Administrators because during those years, there was a lot of movement in the diocese of Santander. There was Doroteo Fernandez, Eugenio Beitia, Vicente Puchol, Enrique de Cabo, acting bishop but was titular vicarate, and then came Jose Maria Cirarda then when he was taking care of the diocese of Bilbao as auxiliary bishop and Apostolic Administrator, another bishop came called Rafael Torrija de la Fuente, and then I came in 1972.

Q. Isn't it true that out of all those bishops, you are the only one who actually witnessed the girls in ecstasy?
A. I think so. I think I am the only one. I heard say that Conchita had made some ecstasies in front of Bishop Puchol but I am not sure. Yes, I think that I was the only one who saw the ecstasies.

Q. Did you ever imagine that God would place you in such a unique situation?
A. I have always tried to be in the hands of God. I always try regardless of whether it is a difficult situation or a joyful one, and this one (that is Garabandal) is both hard and joyful at the same time.

Q. When did you remove all the restrictions that the previous bishops imposed on the priests and why?
A. I don't remember clearly the exact date. It was done step by step. I told the pastor to start (removing the restrictions) and then it was just announced publicly. But I don't remember the exact date. I think it was about six years before I retired which was last year in September.

Q. Have the Garabandal apparitions ever been condemned by the church?
A. No. The previous bishops did not admit that the apparitions were supernatural but to condemn them, no, that word had never been used.

Q. When did you reopen the study of the apparitions and who did the study, how was it conducted and when was it concluded?
A. It was finished in April of 1991 during a reunion we held in Madrid but it was not opened on a specific date. It was opened six years earlier, taking notes of the circumstances here and there. In the beginning, we were going little by little so it took about six or seven years before the study was concluded. Until then I had gone by what the other bishops had done. They had said no. But then it seemed to me that I should personally do something myself. I needed to do a personal investigation because the responsibility demands this of oneself so I had to do something about it and because I thought it was something serious that had happened in Garabandal. It seemed to me that because it was so serious, I had to find out for myself exactly what happened in Garabandal.

Q. What has become of the results?
A. The results were brought to The Holy See, to The Sacred Congregation for The Doctrine of The Faith. That is where you have to take things like this so that is where the documents are. They were given to Cardinal Ratzinger.

Q. Were the Garabandal Messages found to be theologically correct and in accordance to the teachings of the Catholic Church?
A. I think yes. Theologically correct, yes. But one of the details bothers me like the one: "Many bishops and cardinals are walking the path of perdition" it seems to me to be a bit severe. The Messages do not say anything that is against the doctrine of the church.

Q. When and why did you retire?
A. I retired because of my age. The church requires all the bishops in the world, and we are more than 4,000, when we reach the age of 75, to write a letter to the pope telling him of the date when you are 75 years old so that the Holy Father can start looking for a replacement. So that's what I did. My 75th birthday was June 13th of last year (1991), so I retired on September 29th.

Q. Do you have any special plans for the future?
A. Yes. My first plan is to pray more than before because now I have more time and so that is one of my first plans, to dedicate much more time to prayer. My second plan is to help the under-privileged and my third plan is, well I used to write before becoming a bishop and then after I became a bishop, I didn't do it anymore because there wasn't any time to do that. If you want to be a good bishop there is no time to write because you have too much work. So, that's what I plan to do now. At the time I was bishop, I didn't do it because if you write books, you aren't going to do your job well. I used to think that someday when I retire, I will become a writer again. So I am writing a book which will take at least another year and a half before it is finished. but for now, I am thinking that the title can be. "The Christian in The Year 2000." It will be a book about today's culture in Europe and how this culture influences our Christian life and how this culture as Christians has to respond to God and to the service of man.

Q. As "Mother of The Redeemer" and "Mother of The Church" what kind of an effect do you believe Our Blessed Mother will have on the life of humanity?
A. In response to this question, the first thing that comes to my mind is Cardinal Wyszynsky from Poland. You know that he was a cardinal there during the times of the most difficult conditions. With imperial communism the church was so oppressed with so much persecution, there was no freedom. yet in his worst moment. Cardinal Wyszynsky entrusted his flock to the Blessed Mother, Our Lady of Czestochowa. In that extreme moment, the cardinal in his faith found his refuge in the Blessed Mother because She is the One who is going to save The Faith. In this question, I am able to identify with Cardinal Wyszynsky since I think like he did, that is The Blessed Mother is the One who will save The Faith.

At the close of this question and answer session, His excellency added these additional interesting comments:

I am grateful for your visit, it has been very meaningful. A final question was asked of Bishop del Val: "Do you believe that The Messages are the most important part of Garabandal?" and his reply was: "For sure I consider the messages important! Because they are important! In the area where it is similar to Lourdes and Fatima, it is important for us Christians to live what the Messages of The Blessed Mother are saying, if we consider that She could have said this...but, I'm not saying that She did since this would be admitting that the apparitions are true and I cannot do that because the church has not said so yet. The church is the one that has the last word.




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The Vigil: Homepage

http://www.garabandal.org/vigil/interview.shtml

[url=http://www.garabandal.org/vigil/interview.shtml[/url]

Bonjour Leodia,


Je maîtrise assez mal l'anglais pour capter tout le sens de l'article que l'on t'a demandé de poster (je pense par ailleurs que "les amis du forum" peuvent le faire eux-mêmes!) , mais à ce que je crois comprendre il s'agit d'une interview qui remonterait à 1992. Depuis lors, il y a de l'eau qui a coulé sous les ponts!
Peut-être que Mgr Del Val était (en 1992 ) favorable à la réouverture de l'enquête, je n'en sais rien, mais il semble d'après ce que je lis dans le document de 1996 qui suit (voir au 5°) que cette requête a été une nouvelle fois rejetée par le Vatican le 28 novembre 1992!

Comment dans ces conditions peut-on encore prétendre aujourd'hui que les faits de Garabandal seraient encore à l'étude?


Si quelqu'un sur ce forum était en mesure d'apporter un document officiel qui prouverait le contraire, je serais prêt à l'admettre mais j'en doute parce que

1° je vois mal la congrégation de la doctrine pour la foi se déjuger et que

2°, si tel était le cas tu penses bien que ce serait de notoriété publique! Or, j'ai beau fouiller internet dans tous les sens , je n'ai encore rien trouvé de sérieux (au-delà de sites "Garanbadalistes") qui puisse confirmer cette rumeur persistante.

Voici mes sources
(voir par exemple ce lien qui si nous ne sommes peut être pas d'accord avec tout a au moins le mérite de reproduire les documents authentiques d'Eglise: http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/GarabandalDocs.html)

On October 11, 1996 the new bishop, Jose
Vilaplana, again placed his prohibition on the alleged apparitions and
said it is final.

"Some people have been coming directly to
the Diocese of Santander (Spain) asking about the alleged apparitions of Garabandal and
especially for the answer about the position of the hierarchy of the Church concerning
these apparitions.


I need to communicate that:

1. All the bishops of the diocese since 1961 through 1970 agreed that
   there was no supernatural validity for the apparitions.
   
2. In the month of December of 1977 Bishop Dal Val of Santander, in
   union with his predecessors, stated that in the six years of being bishop of Santander
   there were no new phenomena.
   
3. The same bishop, Dal Val, let a few years go by to allow the
   confusion or fanaticism to settle down, and then he initiated a commission to examine the
   apparitions in more depth. The conclusion of the commission agreed with the findings of
   the previous bishops. That there was no supernatural validity to such apparitions.
   
4. At the time of the conclusions of the study, in 1991, I was
   installed bishop in the diocese. So during my visit to Rome, as limina visit which
   happened in the same year, I presented to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
   the study and I asked for pastoral direction concerning this case.
   
5. On Nov. 28, 1992, the Congregation sent me an answer saying that
   after examining the documentation, there was no need for direct intervention (by the
   Vatican) to take away the jurisdiction of the ordinary bishop of Santander in this case.
   Such a right belongs to the ordinary. Previous declarations of the Holy See agree in this
   finding. In the same letter they suggested that if I find it necessary to publish a
   declaration, that I reconfirm that there was no supernatural validity in the
   alleged apparitions, and this will make a unanimous position with my predecessors.
   
6. Given that the declarations of my predecessors who studied the
   case have been clear and unanimous, I don’t find it necessary to have a new public
   declaration that would raise notoriety about something which happened so long ago.
   However, I find it necessary to rewrite this report as a direct answer to the people who
   ask for direction concerning this question, which is now final: I agree with [and]
   I accept the decision of my predecessors and the direction of the Holy See.
   
7. In reference to the Eucharistic celebration in Garabandal,
   following the decision of my predecessors, I ruled that
   Masses can be celebrated only in the parish church and there will be no references to
   the alleged apparitions and visiting priests who want to say Mass must have approval
   from the pastor, who has my authorization. It’s my wish that this information is
   helpful to you.
   
   

My regards in Christ,

Jose Vilaplana

Bishop of Santander

Oct. 11, 1996

Citation :

Jamais le mot condamnation a été prononcé. Alors soit Mgr DelVal , évêque de Santander , qui à fait levé l'interdiction aux Prêtresde monter à Garabandal et d'y célébrer la messe , se trompe , ce quin'est pas le cas , soit il faut cesser de maintenir un des mythes surGarbandal : les apparitions sont condamnées !

C'est exact, jamais le mot "condamnation" n'a été prononcé, sauf que lorsqu'il s'agit d'un constat d'Eglise vis-a vis d'une apparition supposée ce mot (pas plus que le mot "approbation" du reste) n'est jamais utilisé! Ainsi, en jouant sur les mots, comme vous faites, on pourrait aussi dire avec un brin de provocation que Lourdes et Fatima ne sont pas "approuvées" par l'Eglise (Ce qui est vrai au sens strict)

Cela s'explique par le fait que l'Eglise, lorsqu'elle doit se prononcer officiellement sur la réalité d'une apparition supposée se contente simplement (sans engager son infaillibilité) d'apprécier le caractère surnaturel ou non et de vérifier si les faits sont conformes au dépôt de la Foi. Rien de plus, rien de moins. Pour autant, si l'infaillibilité de l'Eglise n'est pas engagée vis-à-vis de l'apparition proprement dite, il n'en reste pas moins que son autorité reste intacte pour assortir son jugement de dispositions pastorales qu'il convient de prendre par rapport au fait de croire ou non à cette apparition. Elle en a non seulement le droit mais encore le devoir, comme nous nous avons le devoir de les respecter!

S'il peut être présompteux de ne pas croire à une apparition reconnue, faire de la propagande pour une apparition non reconnue (comme Garabandal) alors que c'est interdit, non seulement c'est présomptueux, mais encore c'est faire acte de désobéissance!

Philippe-Antoine

Bien! Alors si vous connaissez si bien Garabandal et que vous vous prévalez du soutien de l'évêque pour votre apostolat, je vous demanderai simplement d'en apporter la preuve écrite sur ce forum avec un document officiel signé de l'évêque.
Si je n'ai aucune autorité pour parler de Garabandal, vous non plus jusqu'à preuve du contraire!

Enfin, quand vous dites : " Vos attaques contre ceux qui croient aux apparitions de Garabandal , voir envers moi même , ne n'impressionnent pas" je vous fais remarquer que je ne vous ai pas agressé personnellement ni vous ni personne d'autre et vous demanderai de bien vouloir en faire de même à mon égard.
Vous non plus, vous ne m'impressionez pas !!!

Philippe-Antoine

PS :
pour mémoire, je me permets de rappeler un démenti de certaines rumeurs à ce sujet rapporté par Leodia sur ce même forum.
(voir 10ème post, page 1 de ce fil) : https://coeurs-unis-en-j-m.forumactif.com/garabandal-f22/actualites-sur-garabandal-t3184.htm

Je cite :

Citation :

(...) Par personne interposée, en rapport direct avecle vicaire général de l'éveché de Santander Manuel Herrero Fernandez,par fax, il a été confirmé, que cette information était fausse. Le vicaire général de l'éveché de Santander précise bien que Mgr D.Carlos Osoro, Archevêque d'oviedo et..durant un temps, administrateurapostolique du diocèse de Santander en attendant la nomination de MgrZamora ( fin 2007), il dit donc que Mgr Osora , n'a riensigné, n'a fait aucun écrit , autorisant les prêtres à célébrerl'eucharistie et confesser à San Sebastian de garabandal , il dit texto qu'il le dément formellement , et que s'il existe quelques écrits ou lettres sur ce sujet , que ce sont des faux. Ilpoursuit en disant que pour la célébration de l'eucharistie et dusacrement de pénitence les conditions normales sont maintenues , cellesdu droit canonique sont seuls admises.
(...)

Je vous rappelle , que le Vicaire Général m'a dit qu'il ne trouvait aucune objection à ce que je parle des apparitions ainsi qu'en conférence , je vous remercie d'employer le terme" apostolat" cependant , car en effet, nous sommes pouvons tous être Apôtre de Garabandal.

Je vous rappelle aussi que le prêtre actuel Don Rolando auquel vous semblez ne pas vouloir vous soumettre , parle , agit, prie, et fait prier sur les lieux même de Garbandal sans aucune restriction , et avec l'accord de l'Eveque actuel comme ils nous l'a répété le 16 Juillet lors de la Messe en l'honneur de ND du Mont Carmel et le Dimanche suivant Fête du village.

Je crois que vos écailles tomberont le jour du Miracle , comme Mari-Cruz, si Dieu vous prêtes vie , ce que je souhaite. Cependant force est de constater que le seul Rebelle a l'autorité Actuelle de Garabandal , à savoir Don Rolando avec permission de l'évêché , le seul désobéissant , le seul jusqu'au boutiste, malgré ce que je viens de dire plus haut avec possibilité d'appeler vous même ce Curé, ou faire appeler quelqu'un , pour savoir si c'est interdit d'en parler, c'est vous même.

Je crois pour finir que vous vous êtes endurci , mais n'allez pas entrer en guerre contre Dieu , en refusant ce que dit le curé de Garabandal !
que vous ne croyez pas est votre problème , mais n'empêchez pas les petits enfants de venir , et de croire en ses apparitions.
les membres de ce forum désormais savent à quoi s'en tenir au sujet des apparitions de Garabandal, quant à la hiérarchie .
Si vous escomptez encore polémiquer sur ce sujet , c'est votre Droit . mais je ne vous répondrais plus, car apparemment la vérité ne vous convient pas , et ma présence ici est au service de la Vérité .
Bastiano

Edit modération vous réitère ma demande :

Citation :

Bien! Alors si vous connaissez si bien Garabandal et que vous vous prévalez du soutien de l'évêque pour votre apostolat, je vous demanderai simplement d'en apporter la preuve écrite sur ce forum avec un document officiel signé de l'évêque.
Si je n'ai aucune autorité pour parler de Garabandal, vous non plus jusqu'à preuve du contraire!

Si vous ne voulez pas y répondre (à ce que je crois comprendre), c'est bien l'aveu que vous n'avez aucun mandat ecclesial, en tout cas pas plus que moi! Point. Alors basta, Bastiano et bye

Philippe-Antoine

Citation :

Si vous escomptez encore polémiquer sur ce sujet , c'est votre Droit .mais je ne vous répondrais plus, car apparemment la vérité ne vousconvient pas , et ma présence ici est au service de la Vérité .

Edit modération


Philippe-Antoine

Edit modération
Cause : propos sans rapport avec l'objet ou fil et/ou du forum. conséquence : suppression.
Remarque : Cher Bastiano, petit tips de modération - concentrez-vous sur l'objet du fil, sans tenir de propos injurieux vis à vis de votre interlocuteur.

Encore et toujours les Sans Papiers

Philippe-Antoine a écrit:

je vous demanderai simplement d'en apporter la preuve écrite sur ce forum avec un document officiel signé de l'évêque.
Philippe-Antoine

C'est une idée intéressante en effet, encore que je me demande si les apôtres pouvaient fournir un document signé de Notre Seigneur Jésus-Christ les mandatant pour leur mission...

Ou si Pierre avait un écrit signé le désignant comme Chef de l' Eglise...


Mais bientôt avec la puce RFID, plus de problèmes de paperasse, placez la main droite ou poser le front sur le capteur de votre ordi, et la vérité éclatera.

Rien ne restera caché, c'est écrit dans nos livres, en latin :



Il suffira d'un Signe ! C'est tout Bête !

Sereno a écrit:

Philippe-Antoine a écrit:

je vous demanderai simplement d'en apporter la preuve écrite sur ce forum avec un document officiel signé de l'évêque.
Philippe-Antoine

C'est une idée intéressante en effet, encore que je me demande si les apôtres pouvaient fournir un document signé de Notre Seigneur Jésus-Christ les mandatant pour leur mission...

Ou si Pierre avait un écrit signé le désignant comme Chef de l' Eglise...

Mais vous n'êtes tout de même pas sans savoir que notre Foi chrétienne et catholique repose non pas sur des ragots et des "on dit" mais essentiellement sur des écrits authentiques qui sont de notoriété publique! :

- d'une part, la Bible (c'est-à-dire l'ancien et le nouveau Testament) ;
- les textes du magistère de l'Eglise, d'autre part.

Par contre, lorsqu'on avance publiquement sur un forum une affirmation qui n'a rien à voir avec les vérités de Foi, il faudrait être en mesure de le prouver. C'est une simple question d'honnêteté.

Citation :

Mais bientôt avec la puce RFID, plus deproblèmes de paperasse, placez la main droite ou poser le front sur lecapteur de votre ordi, et la vérité éclatera.

Que vient faire la puce RFID là-dedans? Totalement hors de propos!

Philippe-Antoine

Philippe-Antoine a écrit:

Que vient faire la puce RFID là-dedans? Totalement hors de propos!

Là c'est vous qui ne comprenez pas :

Votre problème semble être l'authentification sûre et certaine d'une personne dans un corps physique (voir Dogme de l'Assomption)

Hé bien la puce RFID est faite pour ça !!!

Voyez-vous maintenant où mènent vos doutes ?

Heureux ceux qui croiront sans avoir vu.... et reconnaitront sans cette preuve matérielle qui effectivement ne viendra pas.

Je crois au dogme de l'Assomption!
Par contre pour ce qui concerne la puce, j'en laisse l'entière interprétation aux fondamentalistes protestants qui eux ne croient même pas aux dogmes marials!!!

Philippe-Antoine